#the greek slave

[artthatgivesmefeelings]

Hiram Powers, (American, 1805-1873) The Greek Slave, model 1841-1843, carved 1846 National Gallery of Art

[littlesparklight]

Been thinking on and off lately about how Briseis says Patroklos never let her mourn her husband (nor the rest of her dead male family members Achilles killed).

And:

"In the Iliad, when Patroclus does not allow Briseis to mourn for her husband (nor for her three brothers and her city), we may see a reflection of the spirit and aim of such legislation. In this context, Patroclus prevents Briseis from mourning her dead not out of compassion but out of a concern over the disruption her lamentation might bring to Achilles’ camp. While Briseis had no surviving male relations on whom she could call to avenge her losses, her words alone could be unsettling and a source of fear. This is the motive for Talthybius’ warning to Andromache in Trojan Women, that if, in her lamentation, she should anger the Greeks by hurling curses (ῥίπτειν ἀράς) at them, the army would not allow her son to be mourned and buried (734���736). Briseis’ desire to mourn her losses was great. Patroclus had to warn her repeatedly. Note emphatic negation and the iterative tense: οὐδὲ μὲν οὐδέ μ᾿ ἔασκες. After he is slain, Briseis does what Patroclus had prevented her from doing: she mourns for her husband, her brothers, and her lost city, insinuating her personal losses into the lamentation for Patroclus. The restraint that Patroclus had placed on her seems cruel in this context, despite Briseis’ statement that Patroclus had always been kind (μείλιχον) to her."

(From Briseis and Andromache Enslaved by William Owens on the Kyklos Project)

[katerinaaqu]

Thinking about Eurymachus said that Odysseus used to place him on his knees, feeding him roasted meat and wine makes it for one even more apparent how young the suitors were plus makes his and their betrayal strike deep

Imagine Odysseus hearing that these children he was so close with grew up and now are in his palace harassing his wife and plotting to kill his son! No wonder he tried to warn them till the last moment

Let that sink in!

[sarafangirlart]

“Ajax the lesser did rape Cassandra but Agamemnon didn’t bc he spoke positively of her and loved her!” I’m going to hold your hand as I say this, slaves can’t consent.

[backpackingspace]

Okay but consider post Canon over protective Athena who is sick to death of her most devout being raped.

Athena sticking close to the whole family and promising penelope that she'll keep a close eye on odysseus the first time he has to go into the market and penelope can't go with him. (She was going to go anyway. She's never actually going to let any of them out of her sight ever again. And it's an easy promise to her dearest weaver who seems so distressed to have odysseus leaving her side.)

Athena fully manifesting in the market when someone grabs odysseus with godly flashes of snakes and owls and the drums of war to scream /release him/ (odysseus is feeling indulgent for both his patron and his wife it's so cute that they're this worried it's not like he couldn't defend himself just fine. Especially from whatever poor fuck just grabbed him who definitely doesn't deserve a goddess screaming in his face. Hes trying so hard not to laugh if he did athena would send him flying.)

Athena telling all the other gods that yes she knows odysseus is the favorite barbie doll she choose him well after all and to back the fuck off if any of them bother him again they will have made an enemy of her.

Athena disguising odysseus only as an old beggar from here on out instead of an irresistibly tall and handsome man. Because she saw how uncomfortable nausicaa's attention made him.

[aliciavance4228]

"Achilles was in a romantic relationship with Briseis."

[just-an-enby-lemon]

If you are an "Odysseus deserves to be crying every day in Calypsos island for seven years." fuck you. No he didn't. Yes, Odysseus is a fucked up guy. No he didn't deserve that. Even if he wasn't my babygirl, pet liar, he would not have deserved that. I wouldn't have said that even to Theseus and I hate that bitch so fucking much. No one, no one, deserves to be a victim!

[in-asterism]

Reading Women of Troy while listening to Epic the Musical is an unhinged experience. highly recommend

[corvidexoskeleton]

I do kind of enjoy the change in Kratos' vocabulary in the norse god of war games, because while a lot of his lines in the original games were pretty aggressive, and he wasn't exactly a conversationalist, he still spoke in that sort of dramatic theater style of speech. But in the norse games, he really doesn't speak much even when he's actively in a conversation with someone, and his choice of words is a lot simpler and direct imo

I'm not sure if it was intended by the developers, but I enjoy the idea that the reason Kratos doesn't speak as much or with as much flair as he did in the original series, is because he's speaking a different language and isn't nearly as fluent in it as he would like, hence his more straightforward and simple choice of words

[littlesparklight]

Thinking of slaves in Greek mythology...

To show what I mean, here's some quotes from (either certainly assigned or uncertainly so) Euripides' fragmentary Alexandros play:

Fr. 8 "Slaves who are fond of their masters' class arouse much hostility from their own kind."

Fr. 12: "You are indeed wise, Priam, but I am telling you: there is no bigger burden than a slave having a higher opinion of himself than he should, nor a possession more spiteful or worthless for a household."

Fr. 23: "I have put it to the test: so base is the class of slaves; mere bellies and they think of nothing further than that." (These fragments have been taken from Ioanna Karamanou's book on the Alexandros play, and I think she uses a slightly different numbering system to the fragments, just for knowledge's sake.)

Given this sort of array of opinions/judgements, if you are a slave, you basically cannot win no matter what you do (or don't do).

Be too aligned with the master or mistress that owns you, which will give you safety and, for what it matters, hopefully affection and protection by them, but your fellow slaves will undoubtedly be suspicious of you. Look out for yourself as much as you can in your circumstances, and you will be thought of as the basest of base version of slave, and if that "looking out for yourself" becomes thought of (in reality or merely from suspicion) as treachery to your master, well... both your owner and potentially the slaves more "loyal" than you will turn against you.

Looking at the "traitorous" slave women and Melanthius in the Odyssey, and having the last two quoted fragments in mind; it doesn't matter whether they actually are intentionally "maliciously" turning away from Penelope and Odysseus' household, or merely doing what they can to keep themselves safe in an uncertain situation (never mind that if something is demanded of any of them, whatever it is, not a one of them can safely refuse the suitors, who are free men). They are "wrong" either way, though they have little choice otherwise.

If you look beyond that Eurykleia's helpfulness/fondness/loyalty for our protagonists is obviously "good" story-wise, what does that mean for her and the rest of the slaves? Who is she, but her master and mistress' puppet, untrustworthy to the rest of the household who are in the same bondage and class as her? She sells out her fellow slaves. For people who would do just as much to her (Odysseus threatens to kill her if she gives him away when she recognizes him!) as she helps them do to the slave women she has deemed illoyal.

And in some ways I think these can even apply, but perhaps more vaguely, to the slave women and geras prizes in the Iliad. To Briseis and the women who cry over Patroklos' corpse. The narrator explicitly tells us the slave women are actually crying for their own sorrows.

But so, in truth, is Briseis. Briseis, who Patroklos kept from grieving what she has lost, what was brutally taken away from her by the very man she is enslaved to. Only here, when Patroklos is dead, in a situation where it would be more uncouth to stop her than to let her go on, does Briseis dare to voice her grief for husband, father, brothers. But yet she also voices it as that this dead man who refused to let her openly grieve for what he himself had part in to take away from her, was kind.

Because how can a slave dare to do anything else? You can't win but for losing.

[tmarshconnors]

"No great thing is created suddenly."

Epictetus was a Greek Stoic philosopher. He was born into slavery at Hierapolis, Phrygia and lived in Rome until his banishment, when he went to Nicopolis in northwestern Greece, where he spent the rest of his life.

Born a Slave: Epictetus was born in Phrygia (modern Turkey) around 55 CE and spent part of his life as a slave in Rome.

Stoic Philosopher: Epictetus is one of the most prominent figures in Stoic philosophy, which teaches the importance of rational thinking and inner peace in the face of external events.

His Works Were Written by a Student: Although Epictetus himself did not write anything, his teachings were recorded by his student, Arrian, in works like the Discourses and the Enchiridion.

Belief in Freedom through the Mind: Epictetus taught that while external circumstances may be beyond our control, we are always free to choose our responses and maintain inner freedom.

Influence on Later Thinkers: His ideas have had a significant influence on later philosophers, including Marcus Aurelius, who wrote Meditations, and modern movements like Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT).

[sarafangirlart]

Pirithous watching ppl ship Theseus with Astyanax:

[official-english-major]

Not really an artist (this is my first attempt at digital art) but I was not seeing nearly enough fanart of Odysseus on Calypso's island

[katerinaaqu]

Hello! May I ask, Did Odysseus have concubines/sex slaves? I keep hearing ppl say he did

Hello Anon! That is a very good question. I think he definitely had war prizes if we believe the passage on the Iliad in rhapsody 1:

Even if I choose to take the prize of Ajax or of Odysseus: I could take it and carry it away

(Translation by me)

We do know that all Greek heroes had some sort of war prize during their plunders so they would also share women with each other. So Odysseus we can expect he definitely had slave women as war prizes. Now the question is whether he used them for sex or not. It seems that there is a family tradition hahaha since Euryclea is mentioned in the Odyssey that Laërtes had her as a loved slave but he never slept with her out of concern for his wife's jealousy

But he never took her to his bed for he was concerned of his wife's anger

(Translation by me)

So it seems that we can assume that Odysseus took a similar route as his father in this. We do know he had slave girls as prizes of war and conflict (he had 50 of them just in his megaron/palace) but he seems to be using them as servants or protégé rather than sex slaves. To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if he was tempted once or twice given how long he was away from his wife (and I did entertain that possibility in my story "Ismarus! Ismarus!"):

But I wouldn't be surprised if he followed the same path as his father and never actually go all the way through with his slave girls but had them as his servants to do some tasks for him like bathe him, help him prepare or potentially mourn the men of his that died during the war.

I think he definitely had slave girls that were supposed to be sex slaves like every king had but whether he used them or not for sex is up for interpretation. Slaves were generally a gray zone in Greek context so people were not considered "cheating" for having them the classical way. On the other hand the existence of Laërtes and not using Euryclea for sex despite his attraction for her (and even paying 20 oxen for her which is not a small price) I should say we can assume that Odysseus follows the same path and never uses any slave for sex out of loyalty for his wife (which could perhaps explain partially the attraction he felt for people like Circe or even Nausicaa in the back of his mind; how the possible suppressed sexual desire he had made him even more vulnerable to Circe's charms for instance so this is perhaps how she kept him bound to her by fear so long -although I do not fully align with this hypothesis I guess it is still on the table)

So yeah one more time; yes I am sure he had at least one war prize for his own that we know from the Iliad but whether he used them for sex or not I think that is up for interpretation but like I said following the sample of how Laërtes treated Euryclea I would say we can equally assume that Odysseus did the same and used his slaves of war the same way that he used them in his palace: as servants. It is up to you.

Hope that helps.

[venti-death-watch]

i absolutely adore your aventurine analyses!! and your aus <3 dr perenna has a special place in my heart

ty!! i am solely the divine vessel through which aventurine and dr perenna speak through

[durn3h]

One of the most interesting things about religion to me is that so many people don’t even see the mental gymnastics they are doing to try and shape the biblical texts into a framework that is acceptable in the modern day and it comes out looking like something that none of the authors would have approved of.